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I want to see how you guys and gals are locating your old concrete right-of-way monuments in your areas. Here in Arkansas I've been told by several older surveyors that you should not locate the center of the monument. When they set the old 4x4 concrete monuments they set them as best they could with the monument totally inside the right-of-way, so to get the most accurate position you should locate the outside edge of the right-of-way monument. I've talked to surveyors in their 40s and younger and they have never heard of this. Let me know what you've been taught.

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  • Land Surveyor
    I was looking for feedback like this. This gives us all info to keep in the back of our minds as we follow others.
  • Always back center or back corner.  This from my old boss, a WWII combat engineer and Korea Vet.  He was a lead engineer on the Indiana Toll Road when it was built.  He and two other old timers wrote the book on right-of-way procedures back then.  The point was that the monument was entirely on state highway property so the adjoining land owner couldn't/shouldn't mess with it

  • The highway R/W most recently monumented, that I surveyed was monumented with discs, similar to NGS control marks. It was surveyed by a survey co. that was an independent contractor & was a recently constructed, major State highway. The bearings were State Plane grid but no coordinates were on the plans. While that doesn't establish anything in regard to what was done in the past, it does show a diversity in common practice from State to State. It was & is quite common for the DOT & other surveyors to establish a R/W based on the centerline of the pavement. You have to use the best evidence you have. Some States use the international foot, others use the US Survey foot. Most old R/W markers, in my experience, were not set with great precision & usually they have been disturbed more than a few times. Evaluating a persons knowledge by their age is about like trying to determine a woman's I.Q. by the color of her hair but experience & education does matter.
    • I agree with Charlie here.  Locate your centerline monuments and re-create the alignments and offsets.  I've found many, many right-of-way legal descriptions that recite station and offset in lieu of bearing/distance calls.  In these cases the r/w document has no mention of a monument.  By rules of construction then the mathematically re-created point would control over an un-called monument.

  • James,

    I was taught the same thing in Louisiana.  For reference, I am 37 years old.

  • It just came to mind that I know several surveyors that retired from our State DOT. I will ask them about it but remember, the answer is probably State specific.
  • I never heard of that either.
    I think it would depend on individual State law but unless language to the contrary is in the State statutes or the HWY plans, I would treat them the same as any other monument.
    I recall back in the 70's, a company I worked for did a survey adjoining a interstate HWY. The crew located the HWY R/W as monumented by the State with official concrete monuments and a plat was generated. An issue developed with the survey as the monuments did not agree with the plans in the State archives. It was ruled that the plans governed. That is contrary to every rule of reconstruction I ever read but what do you expect when you oppose the State, the court is a State court & the judges salary is paid by the State? You can rest assured that the judge knows who he works for. IMHO we are in sad need of some serious tort reform.
    When you measure between the monuments, does the measurement match the R/W of the road? When a road has a specific R/W, you can be sure the government is going to claim that R/W somewhere. I would normally accept the State R/W monuments as set by the State DOT but it seems that doesn't work in every case.
  • Land Surveyor
    Jason, I agree with the helping, but in a metes and bounds situation that concrete monument gets more weight than usual. Billy, thanks for the post. I was just interested in what others are doing for my own curiosity.
    •  Hi James, That why i gave you those links,as you can read Ark Highway Dept. does not set them anymore. I have also read somewhere they were set completely in the ROW ,not just that State, because of land owners . Jason also has a point as to they are just markers and are not Monuments,and they are just to help in locating the ROW. Sometimes you have only the center line and the Stations to determine  correct ROW locations,and that is the best controls to go by,in a land surveying application,if the controlling monuments are gone . I myself have also tied them,sometimes they are all that remains. I know you wanted to here others opinions,and that is fine,But read all the info I gave you links to,(manuals) etc.. and see what they say. Contact AHTD as in David Hall,and find out their positions on these old Markers, and let us know, this would be great and very educational. AHTD ,links also include's a sections on Land Surveying and their ROW.

  • Student Surveyor
    Thanks for that costly information, please can anyone help me get this handout "CAP 194" cadastral law
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