It has come to my attention that some professional boards are requesting that their members supply copies of old or previous mortgage surveys for new clients. Is it time to have every PLS copyright their surveys and also limit the time and scope of their certification???
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I am from Australia so I can only provide some perspective rather than discuss around how things operate local to the US.
I think the only way surveyors are going to be made redundant is if they allow this to happen. How can the large companies with interests in property dealings put surveyors out of business if they are using survey products of surveyors. Would it not be a smart idea for surveyors make access to their data and services easier, allowing integration into services such as the provision of portfolios by realtors.
This could in turn see surveyors engaged more, as with all spatial data there is a temporal component that contributes to the reliability of information provided. What about people using old surveys that may be unreliable? a number of things can come this. Either the older work is reused and is found to be affective for how the consumer uses it or it is found to be not fit for purpose and this then leads to... a new survey! :-) allowing surveyors to be engaged on a continuing basis for the maintenance of datasets related to parcels.
These are just some ramblings as I think this is not a topic isolated to North America. Surveyors all over the world seem to be standing around discussing what's the next new business model or technology that is going to make my profession obsolete. I don't think we will see surveying fade into the shadows as we have book stores or record stores. We have the power to change how the world engages surveyors. The only changes I have observed in the surveying industry is the development of technology to support data collection and production of deliverables. At its core surveyors still conduct business in the same manner as they did 100 years ago the only thing that has changed is how they collected the data more effectively and produce products.
It would seem that there has been little development in the areas of how surveyors are engaged by the broader community and how surveyors distribute their data in an effective manner to allow for ease of engagement by the broader community. I am rather passionate about this topic and would welcome a group skype discussion for those who would like to be involved. my skype ID is spatialsteve
Actually it's already happening in certain markets No. Va. I was told by a title insurance attorney & a RE broker that the lenders are looking at there survey related loan losses & if a development or certain area has zero or very little than they won't require a surevey certificate from the closing agency.
Here’s a real world example: An early morning call I took from a homebuyer that said he needed a survey. I started with the usual qualifying questions but was cut off. He said “I don’t own the property but I am being threatened with a lawsuit for specific performance by a Realtor”. What happened was he wanted to have steps built from the existing deck to the backyard of his to be newly acquired townhouse. He had contracted with a carpenter who was going to start the day after closing. But when the carpenter took his plan to get a permit the locale building department said “ Not only are we NOT giving you a permit to build these stairs but whoever owns this house must REMOVE the existing deck because it’s built over our sanitary sewer easement. There is more to the story but U see why some lenders are now requiring surveys with the all purchases involving real property.
So what about the new Federal requirements. I heard a lot about the issues of the “walk through” but what about “the walk around” the inspection of the one piece of the transaction that will never go out of style, need repair or repainting and it is the one item of the transaction that will surly increase in value (in case you haven’t heard their not making any more). I would like to know if the survey is mentioned any where in the new regs.
I have just been told that the new settlement docs that will be required for all sales that involve Gov. Insured entities will required this doc to be presented & signed by the parties to the transaction, It does include a line item for the land survey. However the survey is not included the the docs that must be presented to the parties 3 days before closing. Walk thru yes walk around NO WAY
First we have privity of contract case law here in Texas. I certify the surveys I perform to particular parties. If you are not one of those parties then you the survey is worthless to you in most cases if there is some problem with it. Second we have a ten year liability window on the surveys we perform so after 10 years they are worthless pieces of paper. If you place a copyright notice on the survey this further prevents people from reusing it.
I myself never send out electronic copies of surveys with my signature and seal therefor any copy that does not bear my original signature and seal is worthless because it is a forgery.
All surveyors in Canada save their documents but mortgage surveys are like unregistered sketch plans so they are filed as sketch plans, separate from the land surveying plans like posting plans, subdivision plans, reference plans. At least in British Columbia, Canada.
Mr. Veatch,
Can you expand on that by providing more details? This doesn't even make sense, relative to the currently understood paradigm in my microcosmic view of professional practice.
Basically, did you really say that out loud, and why would a state board care about a mortgage survey in the first place?
SDW
Ah yes state boards. For your information there are more than land surveyors that have state boards. For example the largest of all US professional boards are the real estate sales boards and when one of their MLS member boards has a requirement that their members make the sellers land title survey or mortgage survey part of the standard sales agreement guest who's work they are required to give away. Now I am not sure that copyrighting surveys is the only answer but it is clear that between Realtors, Bankers, and Title Insurance (ck out First Americans website) companies they are all looking at ways to take the land surveyor out of the real estate sales process.
Thanks, John. It makes a whole lot more sense now!
-Scott
that is indeed weird... has anyone else had this request?