Hello LSU,
This is my first post here.
I am regularly getting in arguments with my pls boss regarding how aĀ Boundary survey should be done.
I received most of my knowledge from my boss at my first job after college. He is very proud of his career and was an excellent mentor to me. My current boss, let's just say, is not in the same league.
Could you all recommend articles that I could refer to when we have we have discussions about how aĀ boundary survey should be analyzed and drawn? Also any articles discussing the juxtaposition of modern CAD and the level of precision we can achieve in the field. (Some of you see the problem already)
Just to get all your blood boiling: my current boss believes in the "paper pin cushion"...
Replies
I had the great fortune of working for the district cadastral surveyor for the U.S.Forest Service. He was originally licensed in Ohio. Some of his colleagues vehemently disagreed with him but what he taught me set the stage for my education & career that was to follow. I like Lewis & have read all the customary books on the subject. Yes, boundary surveying is much different than "lay-out" work. Construction surveying is usually just laying out somebody else's plan on the ground.
I don't do much of anything else these days except boundary retracement & I have been doing it for well over 30 years. Every one is different & I learn something every time I get one that proves to be a challenge. I have never lost a boundary case in court (wish I could say that about divorce court). The problem is that often there is more than one possible solution. Sometimes you have to decide which solution best fits the evidence and use your professional judgement. I think if you do exhaustive research & overturn every leaf, a judge will be reluctant to rule against your survey. The most common mistakes, in my opinion, is not doing complete legal research & trying to find a mathematical solution. You can't "slop out" a boundary survey & you can't put a time limit on it if you want it to stand the test of time & avoid law suits.
I have never been in his court but a current survey I am working on, the Master of Equity of the county is the owner's representative. He knows I am right but he is being a real jerk about it. Most of the times I have been in court, I served as an expert witness. I have never been sued over a survey.
A couple other points. Show everything on your plat. If there is conflicting evidence, show it. State all the facts & use disclaimers. The best solution to a boundary problem is a signed boundary agreement between the land owners. Sometimes a boundary survey needs to be settled in court or the owner should sue to quiet title. I have recommended that in the past.
Hi, I have worked with land surveyors like the one you have mentioned. In Canada we have a different system for mentoring land surveyors in training. Usually we let the LSIT learn as much as they can by themselves. Most registered land surveyors do not want to share much. It is the school of hard knocks. Good luck.
The best real world examples would be found in case law. There are also the IBLA decisions also. Perhaps one of the oldest about honoring existing boundaries would be Cragin v. Powell. United States. 1888. The U.S. Supreme Court said,
āA resurvey, properly considered, is but a retracing, with a view to determine and establish lines and boundaries of an original survey, ... but the principle of retracing has been frequently departed from, where a resurvey (so called) has been made and new lines and boundaries have often been introduced, mischievously conflicting with the old, ...ā
JAC
It' not really an article, but books. Anybody surveying should read "Evidence and Procedures For Boundary Location" and "Brown's Boundary Control and Legal Principles" by Brown, Robillard and Wilson. The guys that taught me to survey made me read both of them before I could be a Party Chief.
Note: Those are very good references but be aware Brown changed his written opinion on this topic over time. It was, in part, a comment by him often quoted, to the effect we should survey the measurements an avoid adopting things that disagree with the calculated results and push the decision to attorneys. He later reversed his opinion in that particular.
JAC
I have more respect for someone that can change his mind.
I wasn't suggesting to use it as a manual, just a lots of good discussion and thought provoking situations. Jeff Lucas articles are really good too. No pin cushions!
Dear Mr. Scheitler,
One of the weaknesses of many of the licensing practices for surveyors is we have one license but two distinct types who receive it. Those who make and administer tests have a preference for multiple choice tests which are fine for technical questions but very inadequate for judging one's ability to make professional decisions. So, a large number of licensees are in fact really good measurers and users of technology (technicians), the remainder are also able to think in a more responsible, professional manner.
What you describe is someone "engineering" a survey. It is as if the rule is to take some calculated ideal and represent it on the ground. Improvements in the techniques, mean "improvements" in the result, i.e., a pincushion. This is in fact what ought to be done when doing construction layout, but NOT when doing boundary.
A real boundary survey is like a detective story in which the gumshoe dick explores for clues and evidence of the truth, analyzes it and develops the most probably correct explanation that fits the evidence. The most vital piece of evidence isĀ that which marks where the owners of the properties have accepted the limits of their property rights to be (existing monument or convincing evidence of said monument location).
There are a plethora of articles and white papers about honoring existing evidence. Look for Justice Cooley's Dictum (The quasi judicial function of surveyors). Look for articles by Jeff Lucas (Pincushion Effect). Study the 2009 BLM Manual of Surveying about honoring existing evidence.
Good luck. Keep your eyes open. Learn what you can. Voice what you believe. Remember, if it is someone else's seal going on theĀ plat, thenĀ in the end,Ā do it his way. IfĀ possible, find a mentor in whom you have faith.
JAC
God luck on convincing the Surveyor to do it right. I find that most surveyors follow the $ rule, do what it takes to make lots of money.
Here is one for starters..http://www.pobonline.com/articles/97498-unmistakable-marks-boundary...
let's see what others have