We have a difficult situation in 2011 where a California surveyor is using notes from an 1891 survey that are shown by the notes of another section of the same township and survey that the surveyor was producing fraudulent notes. 

The prima facie evidence has a surveyor in 1873 setting a dimensioned stone in a mound of rock, and the 1891 surveyor finding a post in a mound of rock.  Then going so far as stating "as established by the guy in 1873"!

This is further complicated by the 2011 surveyor stating he found an "+" mark not set by any surveyor, then using it to control a section line.  In 1891 the surveyor states he found a "W.C." when the 1873 surveyor set  "W.P." and the topography on the line does not match.

Believe it or not, its gets worse.  The BLM conducts an investigation and omits the fact of the 1891 prima facie fraud and spends 20 pages of report on confirming the similarity of topography between 1891 and 2011.  To conclude that issue illogically, the BLM surveyor is not licensed in California.

This has caused immense problems for the land owners because a quarter section line was moved 30 feet south which put structures in violation of setbacks.  Other owners have lost their ability to build because proper setbacks put their footprint locations over the edge and on 45 degree slopes.

I've created a group to discuss this if there is interest in understanding how this fraud happened and looking for suggestions on how to deal with it.  Surveyors should be aware of how this can happen, and that original rancho lines, new forest boundaries and other issues create motivation to move original corners.

There is a link from this group page that has lots of photos of retracement of an 1873 survey and a find of roots from an accessory to a corner as well as a pit carved into sandstone for a 1/4 corner.

 

http://landsurveyorsunited.com/group/issues-of-glo-notes-transcribed-telegraphed-1880-s?

Attached is a picture of a stone that had "W.P." carved on it in 1873, but was found and an effort was made to obliterate it perhaps in the late 1990's.  The second photo shows the impact point of a sledge hammer used to fracture and remove the stone mantle which bore the typical 4" tall deeply carved letters.

The use of the location of the found 1/4 corner pit is what enabled this find.

You need to be a member of Land Surveyors United - Surveying Education Community to add thoughts!

Join Land Surveyors United - Surveying Education Community

Email me when people reply –

Replies

  • Land Surveyor
    Neat problem.
    • Neat?  You must mean intriguing, but rather a mess.  

      The page the owner put together is a nightmare, because of the complexity required to properly document the switched section line monument descriptions, which the correction is well proven by the found monuments, despite the efforts to obliterate them.  

      Then the issue of fraud in another section of the township of the same year survey really adds a level of documentation.  All because the BLM is supporting a monument claimed to be found that no one has set.  Mind boggling!

      The only suggestion so far is the department of interior appeals board.  Anyone have any experience with that?

      Ever see a picture of a 143 year old redwood root after the trees been gone for about a 100 years?  Attached!

      Another attached image is a scarred rock that was broken and pryed from the sandstone formation the 1/4 corner pit was found near.  This piece is what was the clue to the 143 year old excavation of the pit finally found.  

      After the redwood roots were ID'ed by the Arborist (letter attached).  Kind of scary that the contract surveyor for the USFS stated that there were no redwoods in the area when Norway, in his general description of the area described 2 large watersheds filled with them in the lower areas.

      Thanks for your interest and post!

      • It was decided that the Gap fire survey investigation report was so full of subterfuge complicating the issue, that a petition format that addressed the required history of the resurvey was the best approach to appeal the BLM report. The BLM report doesn't even address the rest of the township and its history, which is quite controversial.  The Appeal seeks revision or withdrawal of the BLM report.

        http://algoxy.com/law/blmperpetuationoffraud/petition_to_blm_direct...

        There are also new pages with photos of evidence, like the core from an Red oak that has a horse wire fence mentioned in the the 1873 notes.

        Petition To BLM Director Regarding The Perpetuation Of Fraud By BLM Surveyor/title
        The BLM with Rodger Frank and Gregory Aten perpetuate an 1891 fraud of a glo survey by William H. Norway retracing John Harrington in T5N, R28W
This reply was deleted.

Answer As your Facebook Page

Global Surveyor Forum

Latest Discussions by Category

Add Your Expertise

How to Utilize Surveyor Forums

How to use Forums
Our forums on Land Surveyors United are here to be used as much for finding help with problems in the field as the are for you to express your opinions on anything that has to do with land surveying in general. Feel free to share anything that is on your mind, as long as it isn't meant to damage another member's reputation. Please keep it clean and help insure that everyone has the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of being part of a community that grows together.

We are committed to allowing freedom of expression for all of our members, and that includes maintaining a safe space for people with opposing views to express themselves. We get posts from all over the country and even the globe, so needless to say, people come with different viewpoints on lad surveying practices and processes. We see this diversity and variety as a real strength-- dialogue and debate are an integral part of the educational process, as well as an important tool in exploring different sides of complex issues.

All Community Hubs inside the community have their own forum for asking specific questions to other surveyors, by location, equipment type, etc.

Global Forums

Blog Topics by Tags

Monthly Archives