i have 2 control points created by GPS on my new project, and my Total station without Scale factor (Leica 407)

So, the Orientation get 16 cm difference 

What should i Do?

This Content Originally Published by a land surveyor to Land Surveyors United Network

Views: 3151

See Your Saved Posts Timeline

☇ Reply to this

Replies to This Discussion

GPS coordinates are in grid format and total station shots will give your ground distance. you will need to establish local grid to ground conversion to establish rotation angle and distance conversion factor.

Good answer Robert,It also depends on what type of coordinates you are talking about Ahmed . You can not just say GPS coordinates explain what kind. How they were obtained and by what method. And what do you mean by the TS is without scale factor. It must be set to 1 or is this what you mean or you referring to projection scale factors.Plane projections have different scale factors. too much missing information. Are you using a collector on the total station. That is over 0.50 ft  And how are you using GPS coordinates with your Total station are these local. Did you inverse these distance to compare two different types or you comparing the same type of coordinates from each method.


Dear Ahmed:

GPS is working with UTM coordinates on WGS 84 ellipsoid, so the coordinates you are getting from a GPS has a factor scale in UTM P.S. When you are using a T.S. without factor scale, you have a "pure distance" that can not be compared with UTM coordinates unless you applied the factor scale.

So, first of all, you should place 4 references (with 2 references you can not check, with 3 references you can check the distance and orientacion from one reference, but not the closing error, with 4 references you can check all of them) and observe it with GPS. You will get the coordinates as well as the factor scale for this point (If you can´t get it, there are a lot of excel datasheets that can calculate it... google it).

Then, for any observation between this references, you should consider an average of the factor scale. If you don´t want to keep all this data, and the distances between your references is not soo big, then you can make an average of the 4 factor scale and introduce this average in your total station.

In order to have an idea of the deviation you will get, consider the biggest and smaller value of the factor scale, take the difference to the average and multiply by the distance to that point... you will get the expected approx. value of the "error" you will get.

If you need some help, you can contact me at my email.


David good advice you gave him , But i still do not understand how you can run a total station with no scale factor set, it cannot be set to zero .the factor in the instrument has to be set on something. you cannot multiply by zero the coordinates can have a scale factor in the matrix .but the instrument settings to default the scale factor is ( one)  you can change the scale factor for your coordinates in your programming but you cannot change the scale factor on what distance the instrument is shooting ,you can on what is being recorded and scaled for UTM WGS 84 ellipsoid .  You may be talking about the scale factor for different recording mode or programming  but there is no setting to set the instrument to a zero factor unless you two of you are referring to no factor, when it is set at 1.But you must understand if you are saying there is no scale, it is always on 1. in normal operating mode, are it would not work .Total stations only shoot a slope distance, then this is converted to a horizontal distance using  the zenith angle or a vertical angle some instruments have both.and there are only two kinds, its a slope distance or a horizontal distance  any thing else is a projection.Please describe to me and show me the definition of where i can find this" Pure distance" this is new to me.


Thanks for all your answers

David:-  you helped me much. many many thanks

Billy :- i meant  that i can not change the scale factor in my old TS that Leica stop making it 10 years ago.

also its mean that the scale factor is on ((1)) always and changing it affect the ppm accordingly Zenith.

any way local coordination will be enough for me.

also i will try to make 4 BM and close traverse to correct the errors.

Best Wishes


Thank you, Ahmed if you need any help let me know i will do what i can. That was my ? you can localize your GPS coordinates that is what i wanted to know. i have done this many times. Read my discussion on the little big calculator that calculated  i think i can, if you like to learn how to use them i can even help you download them on your computer and some with down loadable software, the Hp 50g with SGS Cogo+ LT its all free. This has a lot survey programs traverse, inverse ,adjustments, intersection, triangles curves. you can create jobs its like a real data collector. I will give this site link , go there and look at all this. you can buy the two upgrades . these calculators work in many language. or try the free on your computer.



Billy sgss trial version have only limited option ..........very good program but trial version have only limited access

Hello Raymond.this trial version never runs out and has more access to different programs than you will find on most data collects today . do you have a Data collect for your total Station or can you use your gps collector on your total station , I use recon TDS survey pro, i can use it on my sokkia GPS or my sokkia Total station and it will automaticlly preform localization alignment between my two system if i need  localizing  .But this still leaves me without a calculator. my collector has most and a lot of these programs but not all like triangle solutions. do you have a triangle program on anything. well this is one of the best solutions i have seen. do you have horiz. curves ,vert. curves,Spiral solutions. intersection. point to line or by line or ( inverse to point ,curve,angle,or point on curve),do you have Area by points, do you have compass rule adjustment,  rotate/Mirror  or shift/average or scale. what was your ? about scale ? If you already have all of this than you do not need .but the upgrades or only 99 dollars or 199 for the best one , and it has too much to lists. Than this is a bargain, on ebay they want 300 dollars for a used HP 48gx, 500 dollars for a TDS survey card and more than 450 dollars for a ram card that you must have to make all of this work. that is 1250 dollars and you are getting this for FREE you read every thing the COGO + pro will do,  DO  YOU have ALL of THIS for 200 dollars . the calculator is only 125 dollars to walk around with this is 325 dollars that is cheap my friend in today's survey market. so give me limited access.

Thanks Billy

Dear Ahmed:

In your TS Leica 407, go to EDM Settings, then choose Scale, and then place the factor scale that you got from GPS. It should be a valor between 0.9992 to 1.0006.

Your TS model have it... (I´m in this bussines since I was 6 years old, so 36 years, and the 25 years old TS have it... all of them!!!) The big issue is where is it and how it is called.

If you can't find it, it is not a big drama. Take all the data you can,  and once that you finish, export to a CAD file, try to find a point in the middle of the area you are working in, and apply a factor scale that comes from the average of your 4 bechmarks. And then... UTM has been applied!!!

As it is a conform projection, the angles are the same, the only change is the distance, and on this way you are aplying it.

If you need to stake out anything on this area, keep a small table with you like this... (Applying your factor scale, I will consider 0.9996).

Horizontal Distance                     Real Distance

1 meter                                      1 meter

5 meter                                      5.002 meter

10 meter                                    10.004 meter

20 meter                                    20.008 meter

50 meter                                    50.020 meter

100 meter                                 100.040 meter

200 meter                                 200.080 meter

So every time that you are reading in your TS something that is 200 meter away of you, you should keep in mind that by UTM proyection it is not 200 meter away from you, it is 200.080 meter away from you!

If it is better to work at reverse then, instead to divide by 0.9996 (or your Factor Scale), then multiply by 0.9996.

Is it useful for you?

NOTE: If your area is bigger than a couple of km or you are near a UTM huso change, then you should split your area in 1-1.5 km packages, and apply a factor scale to everyone.

Mr. David García Bodego I wanted to ask if I have control points taken by GPS in WGS "geographical coordinate system" and then converted to local "projected" coordinate system using GIS software do I need to made any adjustment to the readings I take from Totalstation


Where Thousands of Professional Land Surveyors, Students of Surveying and Educators are United through Collaborative Knowledge and Purpose.

Land Surveyors Forum

Survey Abstract Coordinates

Started by John J Rodriquez in Introduce Yourself to the Community. Last reply by Kevin D. Allen yesterday. 13 Replies

Control surveying problem

Started by shree ram bhandari in Land Surveying Jobs. Last reply by Billy Brooks yesterday. 11 Replies

Magnetic North Update

Started by Billy Brooks in Surveying Best Practices. Last reply by Billy Brooks Feb 6. 2 Replies


Started by Lalith Senanayake in Surveying Related Links. Last reply by shree ram bhandari on Tuesday. 4 Replies

Job Quotation

Started by Nitesh Shrestha in Land Surveying Jobs. Last reply by Nitesh Shrestha Jan 21. 3 Replies

Survey under tree canopy

Started by Massimo in Surveying Best Practices. Last reply by Maurice Heter yesterday. 7 Replies

Mean Sea Level (MSL)

Started by Chuck Turlington in Geospatial Industry Types. Last reply by Kim Noblitt Jan 17. 6 Replies

Surface pro

Started by Malik in Surveying Field Tips and Tricks. Last reply by Kevin D. Allen Jan 7. 5 Replies


Started by Mthulisi Mloyi in Professional Advice for New Surveyors. Last reply by ⚡Survenator⌁ Jan 4. 2 Replies

Tools,Apps and Quick Guides


Help With Survey Equipment

Social Support For Equipment

Surveying Video Categories

Surveying Photo Categories

United States Hub Forums

International Surveyor Hub Forums

Resources for Company Owners

Land Surveyor Social Media

Surveyor Resources Collections

Getting Started & Newsletter

Featured Land Surveyor Hubs

Student Surveyors

71 members

Surveyor Birthdays

Surveyor Birthdays Today

Surveyor Birthdays Tomorrow

© 2019   © Created by Land Surveyors United   Powered by

Badges  |  Contact LSU  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Service

Site Explorer