I don't know about you but this is the worst procedure and practice I think I have ever witnessed. This may be acceptable and common practice in some other location in the United States but it is contrary to everything I have been taught and learned about Land Surveying.

 

It is disturbing to me that a Professional Land Surveyor (I presume the person at the instrument in this video holds a license) would post something like this for the public to see.

 

My main objection is that this is simply poor practice to not report the facts on a survey as you found them. Proper procedure in the area of the country I am in would be to report the existing monument's location and condition on the map of survey and on the written description prepared for the land in question. A new monument is set at the position you believe the original corner was located at. This gives later Land Surveyors and the concerned parties the opportunity to judge the facts for themselves. The Land Surveyor in this video claims that the procedure I described above is "creating a pin cushion." My opinion is nothing could be further from the truth! Moving an original monument that is found 5 feet away to a place you think it was located at without informing anyone is creating a "pin cushion" in my opinion and borders on fraud as far as I am concerned.

 

There are so many considerations for the original location of the monument in question in this video that I become distressed wondering if this Land Surveyor even looked at adjoining descriptions much less surveyed them in determining where the "original" monument should be moved to. After all a monument always controls both the boundary you are surveying and the boundary of some other lands. In this case it appears to be the boundary of a roadway also!

 

I am not trying to attack this Land Surveyor in particular but there are so many things wrong with the procedure demonstrated in this video I just had to post this. I saw this video on another chat board for Land Surveyors that I happened to visit this morning.

 

This Content Originally Published by a land surveyor to Land Surveyors United Network

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I am speechless (and that doesn't happen often!) This is minimally "gross negligence"  clear and simple - I don't care where you are.  Are you now going to describe the corner as "found" or "set" ? and it is simply because it doesn't fit a residential building corner off an old survey????????? I can but only hope this was filmed as a TRAINING VIDEO to prompt some discussion or to teach younger surveyors what NOT TO DO.............

 

Proper procedure WOULD be to set a new corner with your ID on it, and record the "erroneous" corner on your drawing. This would be a minimal 6-10k$ fine in Florida for fraud. Our law clearly says you will find or set a corner....not MOVE one from down the highway you found and disagree with. You cannot destroy evidence so as to lead everyone into agreement with your result in interpretation of the 2 or more legals involved here.

Now every surveyor that has used that corner recently goes back out to start surveying and who uses that corner in it's old location will hopefully realize it's been moved and not use it until the "new" location is calculated and taken into consideration. These are some truly ignorant people here.............

I agree, this is very disturbing that some surveyors are doing this type of thing.

 

The monument should be left in its current position and a seperate monument set if you do not believe it is not in its original position. The Legal Significance of the Monument is very important, even though it appears it may have been disturbed. It is very hard to justify moving a monument a few feet based on a distance call from a building several hundred feet away. I have found a few monuments I know to have been moved from their original possition but they were much more than just a few feet and the original monument was left were it was found and a new monument placed with the evidence documented and recorded.

 

"The Law provides that the original corners established during the process of the survey shall forever remain fixed in position, even disregarding technical errors which may have passed undetected before acceptance of the survey". (4-2 Manual of Surveying instructions).

"The original corners must stand as the true corners they were intended to represent, even though not exactly where professional care might have placed them in the first instance". (3-4 Manual of Surveying instructions).

 

Brown, Robillard, and Wilson have information on this also in Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location.

 

You need stronger evidence to justify a monument has been moved from its original possition than one call from a building several hundred feet away of a few feet, and an indication that it has been disturbed.

 

A surveyor should not ever, for any reason, destroy, move, or otherwise tamper with original monuments found, unless you have the authority of the County Surveyor or other Governing agencey to re-monument such point, and even then it should not be moved. If it is a private monument, leave it for others to view and judge, set your own monument, (if you wish to dispute) and record your data.

The moment that I realized what they were about to do, my eyes popped out of my head and my jaw hit the floor!

i wonder to myself ...who would teach another person to perform in such a way?  are we helping each other become better professionals or just getter done?    another reason why I am so glad this network is coming along....land surveyors who haven't been taught wrong from right can actually get a second opinion...

thanks for sharing this Karl

The entire idea behind discussing something is to examine the merits of a particular course of action or a particular set of beliefs. As I have stated before Land Surveying has always been about learning something new every day and it will always be about that. This is what attracted me to this profession in the first place. If I was not forced to constantly rethink my positions, conclusion and presumptions about one particular issue or another regarding this profession I would have given up on Land Surveying a long time ago.
amen

Moving a concrete monument found is just waaaaay out there.  I've removed a few old bent-up aluminum tent poles the the client said he put in there and a few broom handle corners but never a concrete monument.  My brother and I once found the bottom half of a set stone at a corner.  We searched for 45 minutes trying to locate the top half.  We found it several yards away in the bushes.  we dragged it over to the bottom half and spun it around until it matched then wired it to the fence post directly adjacent to the monument.  It may not have been as accurate as it once was, but it was back where it belonged.  We surmised that a tractor hit it and broke off the top and someone chucked the top half out of the way.  I'll never forget that day.  I sure hope it's still wired together out there.  If not, the bottom half is still buried in the ground in its original location.

Matt, there is nothing wrong with preserving a monument but in the video above that is not what is happening.

Preserving and moving are two different things.  If the monument were found out of the ground on its' side, I could see trying to put it back where it belongs.  To extricate the monument from an apparently well placed position (it's in concrete and IN the ground) whether it's right or wrong position-wise is just poor judgement and poor practice.

I have one thing to say WOW. Here in Virginia the board would have a field day with this guy. I had a description once that called for the line being 15' off the side of the house and paralell to the house. I located the house and came off 15' and was missing the front and rear corners of the property by 1.5'. I did a little more research and found the house had caught fire several years back and when they repaired the house the owner added 1.5' to the side and 10' to the rear. This taught me to always check the building permit office if a building or house is refered to in the deed(this does happen often). Also a recent job the original deed called for a certain distance along a road I found a newly set pin at this distance, however both owners had agreed to a fenceline being the line (document not in lrecorded) I also found an old pin in line with the fence. The owners asked me to pull up the pin they felt was in error I said no way, but I would show both pins on the plat and they needed to record the agreement from 20 years ago. You just don't pull up monuments.

For me it's interesting to see that removing a monument seems to be absolutely off-limits in the US.

Here in Germany (or at least in Lower Saxony as I don't know much about the practice in other states) it's quite normal to reset monuments found in a obviously wrong position or to remove them completely if they became unnecessary (and if convenient to reuse them for a new established boundary or as replacement for lost or damaged monuments).

But of cause the legal background is quite different so it's probably not comparable.

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