Hello,
I am using survce 3 and I had a file with total station points and gps points.
I collect first the gps points and then I setup the ts and continued to collect points.
Everything is fine until I try to make a localization .
I get weird results. The gps points follow the localization but the points collected with ts seems to scaled in and fit in an area with a radius of few inches.
I checked the points coordinates before the localization and are fine.Ā
Also tried to reverse the process by deleting the locilization and reprocess the rw5 file with no results.
Thried to proccess the rw5 file WITHOUT any locilization points and the problem reproduces!!!!the gps points stays where they are and the ts points get coordinates with some kind of scale.
I am using one point locilization,greece ggrs87, also tried the two point ,gigid body, second point for rotation only. No luck...
So it is not connected with localization but with the rw5 file proccesion.
Can someone please help me ?
Thanks
Replies
..Interesting discussions for sure. While I am over a week late on some additional input, perhaps I can contribute. I have read (most of) the responses and continue to learn from the great input fellow surveyors have provided. To the issue at hand, and a possible 2 cents..I often perform localizations with SurvCE GPS, and have become comfortable with the results I am receiving after much tinkering and an endless learning curve. I have also spent blocks of time on the Carlson website which I have found to be helpful. There was mention of the proper 'boundary' of localized control which improves results. I will stick to the procedure I practice during localization, and maybe there will be new information for you, or perhaps not. Working with established (observed) coordinates, I set my unit up on my 1st known point and connect. After 5 minutes or so of position refinement, I begin a logging (.raw) file. After an additional 5 minutes I begin a set of avg readings, Verfied/Fixed reads accepted only. I let this run for 10 minutes or so, store the point and let the unit sit for another 5, then close the logging file. Fast forward to the end of my GPS observations/number of known points, and perform localization "From Raw File". 1 additional warning I haven't read in the comments yet, (and maybe I just missed it) is the Grid to Ground option in observations. If you are using Ground GPS coordinates there is a convert to Grid for TS use, and back again to Ground for GPS use. Check if you are exercising this option. I have experienced 'corrupted' or inaccurate files before (also mentioned in a comment within) and had to re-localize for that job. Anyway, you may have tried/used Ā this and it may/may not help you. Good Luck, and I look forward to hearing your solution.
Jim ,
I didn't find any solution yet and I am thinking to send back the PDA for cheching at the reseller.
I emailed Carlson Ā and none replied.also my reseller Ā emailed them with no reply.
Anyway, in localization settings at the ts tab I think that the ground to grid option is unchecked.
Should I have it enabled?
I will try that tommorow and I will let you know the results.
The strangest thing is that even if I collect ts points only and run Ā proccess no adjust under raw file menu I have my points again scaled somehow in a radius of some feet.
My seseller told me that the localization should work even if I have ts points only.
I am thinking it is a damaged software situation.
Are all these make sense to you?Ā
What do you do with the raw file you recorded?how you use it?
(Please forgive me, I am not experienced in procedures of that kind of machinery)
I simply take fixed readings of two points and then I set the ts in one of the points and back site to the other and start taking ts readings.
In my research, it seems the overall opinion of most surveyors is that when the job stretches for larger areas (miles/acres) Grid to Ground should be checked for tighter results. If you do enable it make sure you tap on the icon to the right of the option once you are set up and connected. (This is a grid to ground scale icon and will give the proper conversion on the point). Thought 1: Are you operating under the correct Geoid/Region for your area? Thought 2: Have you previously observed the TS points, or are they inserted by record? (I know these are base questions, but I look to cover them anyway). Thought 3: You mention FixedĀ reads, are theyĀ Verified as well? I have taken fixed /Ā verified Ā observations and compared them to the fixedĀ only, and there is often some discrepancy between the two ( a matter of feet at times / though sometimes real close as well). As far as the .raw (logging file), I use it to localize with. My procedure under standard operations is this; Set up GPS and connect on 1st point. Allow positioning for apx 5 minutes depending upon the strength of signal (good PDOP avgs). Start logging file and give another 5 minutes-ish. Begin average observations on point and set limit to 10 minutes +/- storing only fixed/verified reads. After storing point I let the logging continue for another couple minutes and then close/stop that file. An average time of 25 to 30 minutes per point Repeat for # of points you are using for your localization. When I apply my GPS to my TS points I do so by choosingĀ From Raw File.Ā At this point I select that file pertaining to my observations and pick the GPS observations coinciding with my existing control points in the .crd. Apply the results and check my solutions. I can remove any observations that skew my results unfavorably. (If I've read 4 points but 1 had minimum/poor PDOP then I can extract that from my localization and rerun the conversion. There are save options on every file associated with the procedure, and I do so, even numbering them in sequence if I experience a problem( ie...raw1/log1 .raw2/log2 and so on) until I'm happy with the results. There was mention of bad/corrupt files and I have also had that happen. I'd love to hear your solution when you find it..even bad software if that is it..Hope I helped.
Typically when you perform a GPS localization, I would suggest that a minimum of four (4) control points are used in order to check your Horizontal XY or NE residuals. If you also want to include the elevations into your GPS localization a minimum of five (5) points is recommended to see if you get reliable results.
As for the TDS TS RW5 file, make sure that the SP points that you are using, match the localized control points. Also, within the file and after each set up check the AR in order to re-assure that the Azimuth matches the SP control points.
Hope this helps.
Vas Kalogirou
Guys 'thank you all for your help,
I noticed this in two different last jobs I had and I stopped taking measurements until I find out what is going wrong.
I only use one localization point that is Ā about a feet off at position and would like to calibrate the gps at.so it is not have to do with azimuth (I think).
Even if I produces raw data without any control point I get the same wrong results.
Grant, what check boxes are you referring to?yes it is foundamentaly different and that is probably a cause.
Is It wrong that I took measurements in both the gps and ts mode at the same job?why?
Desmont , I contacted carlsonsw Ā forums with no reply at all.also the dealer promised to help me but Ā with contact to Carlson too.I don't know what happens and I need to continue my jobs.hope one of them solve it finally.
I am not familiar with the gps and ts same time setup and probably I do something wrong.
Perhaps a single check box ,as mensioned...
How you guys doing at situations like this? Using two desperate jobs?
Thanks again.
Contact your dealer.
It is quite evident you have some bad data in your file, I would start a new job, input your local grid coordinates, then perform the Localisation again in the field....I find when you try to patch up an existing problem you only make it worse.
Carlson dealers are all well informed people...if you cannot get help there go to the Carlson support area at http://carlsonsw.com and they will help you...just have your SurvCE licence number ready.
Desmond Elliott
ELLIOTT ENTERPRIES
Carlson DistributorĀ
The Philippines
(W) http://carlson.smiley.ph
Vas, yes that's if you want to setup a controlled network but most of the time we run with a random setup (not over a control mark) and perform say a one or two point localisation. This still enables you to check residuals on other marks using stakeout.
Back to the question though, it's more about using the same data collector to perform TS measurements as well. The post above seems to suggest you need to keep the two methods separate by ticking the appropriate boxes cause TS measurements are fundamentally different to GPS.
Grant,Ā
Can you please describe what check boxes?
Thanks
Same thing happened to us. SurvCE only updates data with both grid coordinates and geodetic coordinates. In order to update a calibrated file with both GPS and TPS, you have to go to file, raw data, select your raw data file and it will give you options to adjust or to "Process no adjust".
If you ask me, this should be done automatically.
let me know if this is of any help to you