Translate,Rotate and Scale, Recon TDS

Hi Everyone,For those who are using Recon,most of the time TDS is TDS,You can find similar solutions, even going back to HP 48GX TDS Survey Pro, In the way they work,sure they will be a little different, because of the change form a calculator to more of a computer format, but it is still TDS,

Joseph Staton, asked this question,about Translate and Rotate I added Scale. To me TDS and SMI changed the Survey world forever with the survey program cards of the HP 48 GX also Sokkia played a big part in

Data collection. But TDS was maybe the most chosen ,at this time,although i have used all three at some time. After HP quit making the 48, TDS company purchase over 2000.00 of the remaining calculators,but they had to move on,so the Ranger and then the Recon was born and that's the name of that tune,

So here is how you Translate,Rotate and use Scale on the TDS Recon. I have attached one PDF ,that contains 4 pages on how to do this, in this order 1. Scale,2. Translate,3. Translate by coordinates and 4. rotate. Also if anyone need help with the same programs on the HP 48GX TDS Survey pro ,just let me know, i will be happy to help you.

Hi Joseph,what i am about to explain will work on any data collector that has these capabilities. Most TDS program work the same way, as the older TDS programs, There is very little change,basically they are the same. Did you look at the files i attached on how to do this.Rotations and Translations and Scale and is much easier if you do not have a control file running.Controls files have to be adjusted with the same values. So they must be a mirror adjusted as or moved first then they are part of it,either way i have seen them left out,then later found to not have been adjusted. this can cause big problems. This occurs when files are downloaded, that have never had any adjustments, the property points where in the files so the controls file was never used. Then main file was adjusted with the property, the control points were never viewed. So make sure they are included with any Rotation or translation of the files. But translate is use to move points or to change to different coordinates system, these can not have the same point numbers, say i start a job at 5000,5000 and shoot all my points trav. and property. Then i used point and direction to calculate the calls of the property say 4 cors. but let me back up, there are only two ways to do this, Using the points already shot and rotating to the bearings in the calls ,before you cal. anything. The rotations is best done to points that you have inverse and the distance is close to the calls. also check the angles at the cors., pick you the best ones and rotate the whole job to it. Then inverse all the property points to see how good they are to the bearings, then if you like use point and direction. Start on the corner you rotated on. Because this is now your rotating axis point. First RCL that number say number 3, pick you out a new number lets use 20, you going to use 20,21,22,23 as your 4 prop cors. desc. CAL. Edit point change point # to 20 STO, now you have a new point number,20, now inverse to 3 and 20 ,just to check, to make sure they are the same 0.00 's on everything. Now use point and direction from 20 cal. the same call bearing you rotated too.add the call dists, to it, next store it,pt# 21, then inverse say that point was shot 4. your cal point is 21,inverse 4 to 21, check that, go all the way around the property , next calls say pt 5 to 22, 6 to 23,now back to 3 and 20 with 24. Now you will have 3 points ,on pt. 3, two of them will be cal.pts, this makes sure you closed the deed or calls and you calculations are correct. Now you know how close the property fits from the pts. that you rotated to and if your calculations closed. Now you have a cal. Template to Translate to if you see a better fit. It maybe already good. Some companies ,just tell their crews to shoot it and bring it in.But what if your 100 miles away and this has to be done , they paid the cost for this,when the tools are there to do it.The next question is that person experienced and qualified enough to do this . Now the Second way that i started, to tell you . you can shoot first or cal. first, with Transformations.I create a job pt 1 ,is at N 7000,E 7000 , calculate all my property points from this are vice versa at 5000,5000 . But lets use 7000, when i get to job , i start with two points in same job file at pob N 5000, E 5000,Two 60D nails. now i shoot all my points i have already calculated the property points at the 7000's. The 7000's are , from 1 thru 20, my shots points are 40 thru 60, 40 thru 60, this i call my control file, with out using one.As i talked above, 61 thru whatever, i use for anything else, because my calculations are done and i have 10 more if i need and you can make this bigger if you like, Now i inverse the Property shots and find the one's that have good distance and if you like check there angles to the other points, by corner angle program. but if not, do not worry,when you find the two you like, pick out one you like to rotate on and the same cor. in your cals #'s, inverse to it, say this point was Pt #43, N 5045.2031, E 5100.3689 and your cal pt for this is N 7000,E 7000, now inverse from your shot to your cal, your bearing is N44.1048 E, dist.2725.771, Then go to Translate page , type in the #'s you are moving, (From and to) , 40 on ►, then you will see the direction line box, key in the two #'s 43-1, you used in the inverse say 43-1,you bearing will come up on that line N 44.1048 E and the same for the dist.line box, 43-1, dist. 2725.771', make sure every thing is correct and write all this down, (this will be in raw Data also)in case you have to move it back ,and make this part of your notes..,, then press solve , all these points will be move to the 7000's system,inverse these two again to see if they are the same ,if in a long distance you may have to do this twice or more , Just inverse and do it all over the distance may be very small, it will then match , next you will have to rotate them to the call bearing of the calculated #'s. then inverse all your property #'s cal and shot, to see how good the property cors. are, then you are done. This will also work on Grid's ,state plane, to assume coordinates and or vice versa you also have scale to change them to the same scale factor, But "you" just used two different coordinates system and moved your shot points over 2725.771' ft @ a Bearing of N 44.1048 E, If you have to readjust for very long distance, both these values will change as the decimal places ,values move closer together.In the end you will end at the required coordinates values. Moving either system will work, depends on what you need to use. And that's how you Translate and Rotate with TDS Recon Survey Pro.

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Billy Brooks September 26, 2016 at 4:20pm

Hi Everyone, Since this is about TDS ,i thought i show the TDS 48 GX programs also for this and how similar they are to each other TDS is TDS..Below i have attached a PDF file with 2 Pages ,they are old ,so sorry for that , But my book in real good condition is in storage.
Billy Brooks September 19, 2016 at 12:06am

Hi Joseph,what i am about to explain will work on any data collector that has these capabilities. Most TDS program work the same way, as the older TDS programs, There is very little change,basically they are the same. Did you look at the files i attached on how to do this.Rotations and Translations and Scale and is much easier if you do not have a control file running.Controls files have to be adjusted with the same values. So they must be a mirror adjusted as or moved first then they are part of it,either way i have seen them left out,then later found to not have been adjusted. this can cause big problems. This occurs when files are downloaded, that have never had any adjustments, the property points where in the files so the controls file was never used. Then main file was adjusted with the property, the control points were never viewed. So make sure they are included with any Rotation or translation of the files. But translate is use to move points or to change to different coordinates system, these can not have the same point numbers, say i start a job at 5000,5000 and shoot all my points trav. and property. Then i used point and direction to calculate the calls of the property say 4 cors. but let me back up, there are only two ways to do this, Using the points already shot and rotating to the bearings in the calls ,before you cal. anything. The rotations is best done to points that you have inverse and the distance is close to the calls. also check the angles at the cors., pick you the best ones and rotate the whole job to it. Then inverse all the property points to see how good they are to the bearings, then if you like use point and direction. Start on the corner you rotated on. Because this is now your rotating axis point. First RCL that number say number 3, pick you out a new number lets use 20, you going to use 20,21,22,23 as your 4 prop cors. desc. CAL. Edit point change point # to 20 STO, now you have a new point number,20, now inverse to 3 and 20 ,just to check, to make sure they are the same 0.00 's on everything. Now use point and direction from 20 cal. the same call bearing you rotated too.add the call dists, to it, next store it,pt# 21, then inverse say that point was shot 4. your cal point is 21,inverse 4 to 21, check that, go all the way around the property , next calls say pt 5 to 22, 6 to 23,now back to 3 and 20 with 24. Now you will have 3 points ,on pt. 3, two of them will be cal.pts, this makes sure you closed the deed or calls and you calculations are correct. Now you know how close the property fits from the pts. that you rotated to and if your calculations closed. Now you have a cal. Template to Translate to if you see a better fit. It maybe already good. Some companies ,just tell their crews to shoot it and bring it in.But what if your 100 miles away and this has to be done , they paid the cost for this,when the tools are there to do it.The next question is that person experienced and qualified enough to do this . Now the Second way that i started, to tell you . you can shoot first or cal. first, with Transformations.I create a job pt 1 ,is at N 7000,E 7000 , calculate all my property points from this are vice versa at 5000,5000 . But lets use 7000, when i get to job , i start with two points in same job file at pob N 5000, E 5000,Two 60D nails. now i shoot all my points i have already calculated the property points at the 7000's. The 7000's are , from 1 thru 20, my shots points are 40 thru 60, 40 thru 60, this i call my control file, with out using one.As i talked above, 61 thru whatever, i use for anything else, because my calculations are done and i have 10 more if i need and you can make this bigger if you like, Now i inverse the Property shots and find the one's that have good distance and if you like check there angles to the other points, by corner angle program. but if not, do not worry,when you find the two you like, pick out one you like to rotate on and the same cor. in your cals #'s, inverse to it, say this point was Pt #43, N 5045.2031, E 5100.3689 and your cal pt for this is N 7000,E 7000, now inverse from your shot to your cal, your bearing is N44.1048 E, dist.2725.771, Then go to Translate page , type in the #'s you are moving, (From and to) , 40 on ►, then you will see the direction line box, key in the two #'s 43-1, you used in the inverse say 43-1,you bearing will come up on that line N 44.1048 E and the same for the dist.line box, 43-1, dist. 2725.771', make sure every thing is correct and write all this down, (this will be in raw Data also)in case you have to move it back ,and make this part of your notes..,, then press solve , all these points will be move to the 7000's system,inverse these two again to see if they are the same ,if in a long distance you may have to do this twice or more , Just inverse and do it all over the distance may be very small, it will then match , next you will have to rotate them to the call bearing of the calculated #'s. then inverse all your property #'s cal and shot, to see how good the property cors. are, then you are done. This will also work on Grid's ,state plane, to assume coordinates and or vice versa you also have scale to change them to the same scale factor, But "you" just used two different coordinates system and moved your shot points over 2725.771' ft @ a Bearing of N 44.1048 E, If you have to readjust for very long distance, both these values will change as the decimal places ,values move closer together.In the end you will end at the required coordinates values. Moving either system will work, depends on what you need to use. And that's how you Translate and Rotate with TDS Recon Survey Pro.

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- Billy Brooks > Billy Brooks October 1, 2016 at 7:24pm
  
  Hi Everyone , I like to say rotation can be done before or after translation , that is your call.and even if it has to be done again,as long as you use the same points in each system each time and it is the same point as your transformation axis of the translation and rotation. this keeps that point the same.This is your Base point of the rotation.
- Land Surveyor
  
  Joseph Staton > Billy Brooks September 29, 2016 at 8:01pm
  
  Wooow Billy your amazing!! You took a lot of time explain this to me. Adding pdf's to! Have no way thank you enough for your help!!!!!!!!!!! I can donate to this site didn't know could. Hope helps.
- Billy Brooks > Joseph Staton September 29, 2016 at 9:18pm
  
  Thank you again Joseph, I have a lot more you can read at this site.this is not just a Chat
  
  Room. You have question on anything someone will help you. And this site is free, but help when you can, because you are helping yourself that is all they ask.

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Where are you surveying?

Older Recon/TDS 5 how to use

Translate,Rotate and Scale, Recon TDS

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