Hello All,

I have a project in Alabama that is located on the south end, not very close to the coast, but close to a river connected to the coast.  I have never used MSL, but I am working with an engineer that has a need to use MSL.  As a designer, I would like to know what the cut-off distance is between use of an MSL tidal gauge and/or NAVD88.  I believe some coastal areas still use MSL, but there must be a rule for knowing when it is no longer accurate or applicable.  In my limited research, I have heard of 1-2 miles as rule of thumb (upland of gauge), but not found any reference to this in a white paper form or scientific type documentation, but there must be something?

Thanks in advance for your help with this, greatly appreciated.

This Content Originally Published by a land surveyor to Land Surveyors United Network

Views: 586

See Your Saved Posts Timeline

☇ Reply to this

Replies to This Discussion


If the site is on a river and only a few miles inland from the coast, quite likely, there’s a gaging station near the site.

If can be more specific about details, I might be able to better help you.



He should be able to interpolate between the two datums from a single point of measure.

convert would be the better operative.

The engineer may need elevations referenced to mean sea level (MSL) because it is required by local government or he/she needs to compare the existing elevations to local flood maps and so on.

Below is a link to NGS's data maps with horizontal and vertical control.

Just locate the control near your project and  use the monumentation(s) elevations to gather the information needed.  

NGS Data Explorer

May be a bit of a stretch for your circumstance, but I would begin by looking at some of the FEMA El Cerificate specs.  Might get you pointed in the right direction.

I can't imagine what reason would necessitate the need to use the old National Geodetic Vertical Datum (1929) in preference to the more recent calculation. There will of course be localised and in all probability negligible differences simply as a result of the change in datum and subsequent additional considerations in the calculation of the geoid in the more recent NAVD88.

Not being familiar with the equivalent systems in mapping in North America I can only assume that the more recent NAVD88 is similar in nature to the Ordnance Survey's OSTN15 and OSGM15 geoid calculation to facilitate the use of GNSS and remove the requirement to rely upon physical benchmarks which by their very nature have the potential to be rendered unreliable through geological and/or structural movement. Deep mining of coal and the subsequent widespread subsidence throughout South Yorkshire kept me quite busy throught the 1990's.

Your two datums will in most cases deliver very similar results but it is potentially a significant undertaking to verify values on the old network if said network is no longer maintained.

In short I would suggest that NGVD29 should always be considered inaccrate and thus inapplicable unless extensive checks are undertaken relative to multiple benchmarks in the given area. Any such check can only verify local values so the nature of the specified requirement to use this datum would need to better understood. 


Where Thousands of Professional Land Surveyors, Students of Surveying and Educators are United through Collaborative Knowledge and Purpose.

Land Surveyors Forum

Looking for project topic

Started by OLALEYE OLAMIDE BENJAMEN in Surveying Best Practices 1 hour ago. 0 Replies

modern method of stereo model

Started by shree ram bhandari in Surveying Documents 8 hours ago. 0 Replies

Survey Abstract Coordinates

Started by John J Rodriquez in Surveying Best Practices. Last reply by Donald E Robinson, PLS, CFS 22 hours ago. 16 Replies

Control surveying problem

Started by shree ram bhandari in Land Surveying Jobs. Last reply by Billy Brooks on Saturday. 11 Replies

Magnetic North Update

Started by Billy Brooks in Surveying Best Practices. Last reply by Billy Brooks Feb 6. 2 Replies


Started by Lalith Senanayake in Surveying Related Links. Last reply by shree ram bhandari Feb 12. 4 Replies

Job Quotation

Started by Nitesh Shrestha in Land Surveying Jobs. Last reply by Nitesh Shrestha Jan 21. 3 Replies

Survey under tree canopy

Started by Massimo in Surveying Best Practices. Last reply by Maurice Heter on Saturday. 7 Replies

Mean Sea Level (MSL)

Started by Chuck Turlington in Geospatial Industry Types. Last reply by Kim Noblitt Jan 17. 6 Replies

Surface pro

Started by Malik in Surveying Field Tips and Tricks. Last reply by Kevin D. Allen Jan 7. 5 Replies


Started by Mthulisi Mloyi in Professional Advice for New Surveyors. Last reply by ⚡Survenator⌁ Jan 4. 2 Replies

Tools,Apps and Quick Guides


Help With Survey Equipment

Social Support For Equipment

Surveying Video Categories

Surveying Photo Categories

United States Hub Forums

International Surveyor Hub Forums

Resources for Company Owners

Land Surveyor Social Media

Surveyor Resources Collections

Getting Started & Newsletter

Featured Land Surveyor Hubs

Surveyor Birthdays

© 2019   © Created by Land Surveyors United   Powered by

Badges  |  Contact LSU  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Service

Site Explorer