Land Surveyor Forum

Replies

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  Charles W. Lawley III October 19, 2011 at 12:14am

  Mark,

  I think your right about finding the right salesperson.  I have seen this as a discussion in several other forums and it seems that salespeople/repair centers are getting a bad rap because, honestly most are "forced" to sale what they sale, "forced" not to discuss the problems their repair shops experience with the equipment they sale (as all equipment has common problems) and "forced" by the manufacturers to sale against other manufacturers weaknesses only.  It's sales, sure...but Surveyors and Engineers tend to be a tight knit group and I think the idea of helping one another doesn't really seem to matter anymore.

   

  When you're looking for a good place to purchase equipment do this:

   

  1.  Make sure they have a repair shop.  Not just any "replace the board" shop.  You need a repair shop that completely goes the distance to find the problem, find the cause of the problem and fix the problem.  And the repair shop shouldn't be just a one manufacturer repair shop...they should be able to repair anything.  

   

  Unfortunately, there's only about 10-15 true repair shops in the US.  I'm talking cream-of-the-crop technicians.  

   

  2.  Tell the shop that you're interested in equipment straight off.  If the salesman starts telling you about one particular brand right off, without inquiring about your needs, the software you use and your personal preferences you went to the wrong place.  

   

  3.  Make sure the shop offers up common problems they see with even the equipment they sell.  They'll be some.  

   

  If you can find this, you got yourself a good place to shop.  If you need some help finding it in your area I am happy to help.

  
  MARK GREGORY HILL said:

  I agree with Jonathan100%. Finally! Someone else not brainwashed by Trimble. I don't believe it is an issue with the equipment but, like Jonathan, a problem with the software. I have never used the 1200 but I can easily believe that it finds the prism faster and is easier to utilize and navigate than the software that I've used with our S6. This wasn't the Trimble software but the Trimble software that I did use briefly had terms and menus that were unfamiliar. Perhaps I just wasn't familiar with the terminlology or maybe I'm "old school" or something. Maybe the terms and "lingo" are different depending on what region of the country you're from but that should be an easy adjustment to make.

  I've often wondered what makes Trimble so popular. Is it marketing, is it avaiability or is it preference? Have the guys who "tout" Trimble ever even used any other manufacturers equipment? Various equipment has it's pros and cons and maybe your favorite is what you cut your teeth on, so to speak. And when it comes to customer support, it seems to me that if a robotic package was purchased and the software terms and menus were relative to your application, self explanitory, easy to read, comprehend and navigate and communicates with all the equipment well then there should be very little need for customer support. A pipe dream, right?

  It just seems to me that a good salesman or technician that knows his equipment well and how it applies to the task at hand and that would provide a good demo and recongnize the clients needs rather than trying to pad his bank account is hard to find. How do you tell when you've actually found him? I've been in surveying for a long, long time and only met one that seemed helpful and wasn't out to preasure anyone in a purchase. I guess that I come from an era when surveyors knew more about how to operate their equipment than the salesmen. Of course nothing ran on batteries back then and we didn't even have the simplest form of a calculator.

  Sorry if I've ruffled some feathers. I'm just trying to say that there are other options available and if you've never explored those other options you may not know that things actually work easier and simpler and more efficient than what you're using currently.
  Jonathan Brundage said:

  Ive used an S6 and a Leica 1200 series. Go Leica! Too many software issues with the S6, took to long to lock on target. The s6 and 1200 series are similar, but the leica's ease of use was much better than the s6. 
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  Dave Tlusty October 16, 2011 at 2:55pm

  I mentioned the Sokkia SRX above and use it and think its a good instrument, however, there are little glitches that just shouldn't be - I've gotten used to them but you almost have to think that no FIELD surveyor tested this unit before they produced it.   For one thing, you have to remember to take the battery out of the instrument  or it will go dead in a couple days.  That is ridiculous.  If you turn the instrument off, it should be OFF completely! Not so with the SRX.   Also, if you don't open the beam emitter door on the SRX handle, it just won't find you.  You get into a habit of opening the door each time you use it but a new user will forget and get very frustrated.. especially if you're a few hundred feet away.  Why a door?  What not just a glass panel?    Additionally with the instrument handle, you have to remember to flip down the little bluetooth antenna before you put the instrument in the case or you will break it.  Yep, mine is broken.  It just breaks the antenna housing - not the wiring - so the bluetooth still works.  I just taped the broken piece back on to help keep rain water out of the instrument.  The instrument case is designed so that if you put the instrument in it with the beam emitter door open, there is enough clearance that you don't break to door.  Now why didn't they leave a 2" space like that for the bluetooth antenna?!  

   

  Probably the biggest glitch with the instrument design is that you can't use it for conventional leap-frog (tripod to tripod) traversing unless you do one of the following: 

  1) you buy all Sokkia tribrachs designed for the SRX;   

  2) drill all your tribrachs with about a 3/8" drill strategically located to so that a liitle pin that protrudes from the bottom of the SRX fits in that hole; or

  3) cut the pin off the bottom of the SRX. 

   

  If I would have known about these things when I was looking at the instrument, I would have eliminated the SRX from consideration and most likely ended up with Leica.

  Ya, with any instrument, THOROUGHLY test it before you buy.
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  MARK GREGORY HILL October 16, 2011 at 1:41pm

  I agree with Jonathan100%. Finally! Someone else not brainwashed by Trimble. I don't believe it is an issue with the equipment but, like Jonathan, a problem with the software. I have never used the 1200 but I can easily believe that it finds the prism faster and is easier to utilize and navigate than the software that I've used with our S6. This wasn't the Trimble software but the Trimble software that I did use briefly had terms and menus that were unfamiliar. Perhaps I just wasn't familiar with the terminlology or maybe I'm "old school" or something. Maybe the terms and "lingo" are different depending on what region of the country you're from but that should be an easy adjustment to make.

  I've often wondered what makes Trimble so popular. Is it marketing, is it avaiability or is it preference? Have the guys who "tout" Trimble ever even used any other manufacturers equipment? Various equipment has it's pros and cons and maybe your favorite is what you cut your teeth on, so to speak. And when it comes to customer support, it seems to me that if a robotic package was purchased and the software terms and menus were relative to your application, self explanitory, easy to read, comprehend and navigate and communicates with all the equipment well then there should be very little need for customer support. A pipe dream, right?

  It just seems to me that a good salesman or technician that knows his equipment well and how it applies to the task at hand and that would provide a good demo and recongnize the clients needs rather than trying to pad his bank account is hard to find. How do you tell when you've actually found him? I've been in surveying for a long, long time and only met one that seemed helpful and wasn't out to preasure anyone in a purchase. I guess that I come from an era when surveyors knew more about how to operate their equipment than the salesmen. Of course nothing ran on batteries back then and we didn't even have the simplest form of a calculator.

  Sorry if I've ruffled some feathers. I'm just trying to say that there are other options available and if you've never explored those other options you may not know that things actually work easier and simpler and more efficient than what you're using currently.
  Jonathan Brundage said:

  Ive used an S6 and a Leica 1200 series. Go Leica! Too many software issues with the S6, took to long to lock on target. The s6 and 1200 series are similar, but the leica's ease of use was much better than the s6. 
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  Jonathan Brundage October 14, 2011 at 3:14pm

  Ive used an S6 and a Leica 1200 series. Go Leica! Too many software issues with the S6, took to long to lock on target. The s6 and 1200 series are similar, but the leica's ease of use was much better than the s6. 
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  Charles W. Lawley III October 12, 2011 at 10:55pm

  I am totally in agreement with what Dave has said.  The two most important factors in making a decision is 1) Local Support - without it you're dead in the water and 2) Ease of Use (pointing more in the software direction).  Unfortunately, in todays world most salespeople are "buy and book".  They'll promise all the support in the world but normally it just doesn't end up working out the same way.  Therefore, choosing a Robotic gun that runs seamlessly with the software that you or your guys already knows is a major factor so that you don't depend on the support that probably wont be there anyway.  Third, but just as important as the first two is the quality of the gun.  Talk to a repair shop that works on a little of everything.  Let them tell you the most commons complaints and problems across the board.  You'd be surprised at how many instruments have the same common problems.  

  
  Dave Tlusty said:

  Very important is 1) your dealer support and 2) the data collector/field software you are using.  My 1st robot was an old Geodimeter 4400, Excellent instrument but the user interface took some getting used to - to offset the learning curve, I had great support from the Geodimeter rep.   The robot I use now is an SRX.  Its a very good instrument also and works fine for me.  I run it with an Allegro and MicroSurvey Field Genius.  FG was terrible for this instrument for the first 2 years but the recent release is really a blessing and took care of many issues.   Would I have recommended this combination a year ago? NO WAY!! Would I recommend it today, YES!!  We bought the Sokkia equipment (including 2700ISX GPS) because their price was so much better than Leica and Trimble - but that was two years ago.  I don't know how their prices are today. The SRX is very quick to find the target (prism) and only once in two years has it locked on to something else - the red tail light lense on my truck.  It is very fast tracking and stays locked on the prism well.   Again, the dealer support will go a long ways in making ANY instrument you buy a worthwhile investment instead of just a headache that you find is a PITA to use.  If you go with Sokkia, a good dealer can work the system and get you a 3" instrument for the same price as a 5" unit.  Good Luck!
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  Lynn Curtis September 23, 2011 at 2:47pm

  As a Trimbe user myself, I would recomend a Trimble unit.  The ease of use and excellent customer support make it a smart choice.  In my opinion, many of these devices mentioned are capable of doing the same tasks.  However, in this economy money is the ticket.  It is my opinion that you could pick up a Trimble and although the cost may be more, the ease of use and customer support will make up the difference.  It is not much fun when you have new equipment and cant solve problems in a timely matter.
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  Dave Tlusty September 7, 2011 at 10:01pm

  As a follow-up, regarding reacquiring the prism, today I was out with the SRX and timed how long it took to find me (six seconds max) and measure (about another 3 - 4 seconds).  It didn't make a difference which way the instrument was pointed, the most it took to find the remote unit was 6 seconds.  If I was only like about 45 degrees away from it, the acquisition time was shorter.  I was not using tracking mode, just standard fine measure mode.  Just thought I'd mention this.
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  Ivan August 14, 2011 at 7:26pm

  Sokkia SRX (the newest one) I've been using a SRX5  for 2.5 years and no complaints, but the new instrument has more features , Allegro Mx and SurvCE 2.54 a great combination.
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  Dave Tlusty August 11, 2011 at 8:35am

  Very important is 1) your dealer support and 2) the data collector/field software you are using.  My 1st robot was an old Geodimeter 4400, Excellent instrument but the user interface took some getting used to - to offset the learning curve, I had great support from the Geodimeter rep.   The robot I use now is an SRX.  Its a very good instrument also and works fine for me.  I run it with an Allegro and MicroSurvey Field Genius.  FG was terrible for this instrument for the first 2 years but the recent release is really a blessing and took care of many issues.   Would I have recommended this combination a year ago? NO WAY!! Would I recommend it today, YES!!  We bought the Sokkia equipment (including 2700ISX GPS) because their price was so much better than Leica and Trimble - but that was two years ago.  I don't know how their prices are today. The SRX is very quick to find the target (prism) and only once in two years has it locked on to something else - the red tail light lense on my truck.  It is very fast tracking and stays locked on the prism well.   Again, the dealer support will go a long ways in making ANY instrument you buy a worthwhile investment instead of just a headache that you find is a PITA to use.  If you go with Sokkia, a good dealer can work the system and get you a 3" instrument for the same price as a 5" unit.  Good Luck!
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  MARK GREGORY HILL July 26, 2011 at 5:15pm

  I've used the trimble S-8 and the Topcon 800 series. I liked the topcon's ability to find the prism again after the connection was lost, usually due to traffic. The topcon RC-2 aquisition device was hard to beat, when the target was lost or when first aquiring a sight simply point it at the instrument and hit find and it would immediately turn, find and lock on to the prism. The S-8 would do that but it took 2 different devices, the geolock and, I forgot the other one as I never got to use it. When you used the 2 lights to find the prism with the Trimble you actually had to look at them and you would go a little too far and you would have to steer back and maybe again and then maybe up or down a little and if you were pointed up or down too much you coudn't even see the lights and if you couldn't see the lights or if you were too far away you couldn't even tell which face of the instrument you were looking at. There again with the topcon just point the RC-2 at the gun, push a button and do whatever you wanted for about 5 - 10 seconds and it would find and lock and ready to go. The geolock system took a while to get triangulated in accurately enough to work well. You had to collect many shots in different quadrants for it to lock in and work well. So it seemed to me that by the time the geolock was ready to work well you were almost finished with the job. I didn't like the survey pro software that was installed on the data collector that we had but many others did like it, I guess that might be a matter of opinion. It just seemed to me that it wasn't very user friendly and cumbersome to navigate through the screens. Well I guess you can tell where I stand. I've never used a Sokkia or a Lieca and never knew anyone that did so no help there. I do know someone with a TC-2 data collector with the Survey Pro software used with the Trimble S-8 for sale. I don't know the asking price just that it was the Data Collector for sale and not the Trimble S-8. I guess one is no good without the other and don't understand why he wanted to break up the pair but if it works out that you're interested you can email me at [email protected] and I will get him to contact you or get the info for you.